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Date: Fri, 25 May 90 02:34:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #447

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 11 : Issue 447

Today's Topics:
               Re: Splitting sci.space
              Ulysses vs Galileo
              Re:  SPACE Digest V11 #440
            Book: THE RESTLESS SUN
              Re: NASA Select TV
             light pollution exaggeration
               Re: Endangered squirrels
               Re: Endangered squirrels
           Payload Summary for 05/24/90 (Forwarded)
               Manned mission to Venus
               Re: German MIR astronaut
            Re: terraforming Venus
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 24 May 90 05:20:20 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Splitting sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>    Lately there have been an excessive number of sci-fi postings too.
>Surely there is already some sort of talk.sci-fi group out there...

There is rec.arts.sf-lovers, actually.  However, trying to redirect such
discussions is usually not worth the trouble.  The best way to deal with
problems like this is... believe it or not...

    ---> BE PATIENT and wait for it to die out <---

Most of the time, this sort of thing is a one-shot problem that will
be forgotten a month later.  In fact, this one is already pretty much
gone.

A little patience prevents a lot of pointless uproar.
--
Life is too short to spend    |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 24 May 90 05:14:21 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Ulysses vs Galileo

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Andrew Cowie) writes:
>I'm no expert at orbital mechanics, but how can Ulysses slingshot around
>Jupiter to get to a sun-polar orbit when it is taking Galileo 5 or so years
>and 3 slingshots to get to Jupiter? Does it have to do with the masses of
>the craft involved, or am I missing something important?

Right the first time.  Ulysses is a *lot* smaller and lighter than Galileo.
The same rocket combination that was going to send Galileo direct to
Jupiter -- Shuttle-Centaur -- was also slated to carry a *pair* of
Ulysses-class probes to Jupiter, in the original International Solar
Polar Mission.  They would have gone around Jupiter in (roughly speaking)
opposite directions, sending one over each pole of the Sun.  One probe
would have been built in Europe, the other in the US.

The "International" part of ISPM was abruptly deleted when the US reneged
on its promises and unilaterally cancelled its half of the mission.
--
Life is too short to spend    |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date:     Wed, 23 May 90  13:28:38 EDT
Subject:  Re:  SPACE Digest V11 #440

> Date: 23 May 90 05:25:22 GMT
> From: uoft02.utoledo.edu![e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Endangered squirrels
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Greg Titus) writes:
> > In article <[e-mail]>
>  [e-mail] writes:
> >>...  Estimates of
> >>the Mt. Graham red squirrel population range from 50 to 150 individuals.
> >>   [quite a bit deleted]
> >>...  Since the
> >>squirrels' habitat spans about 10,000 acres, ...
> >
> > I have a hard time reconciling these numbers.  If we assume
> > 100 squirrels for the population, then we've got a population
> > density of 0.01 squirrel/acre.  This is way too low for a
> > small rodent -- I would expect something in the range 1 to 10
> > squirrels/acre, or 100 to 1000 times as great a density.
> > Squirrels just don't range very far.  At 0.01 squirrel/acre,
> > they couldn't even breed.
> >
> >
> I was just out in Tucson last week where the results of the latest
> survey where published.  They said the population was higher than last
> year but still only about 125-150 critters.  Your math is correct but on
> what grounds do you make your breeding claim?  As the squirrels seem
> to have done ok so far I think your claim is absurd.
>
>
>
> Bob Dempsey
> Ritter Observatory
>
> ------------------------------

I think that the folks out in Arizona should go ahead and build the
observatory, and just plain forget about the squirrels. Some of them
will die, and others will survive. The ones that survive will find
new acreage upon which to forage and breed, and will be the fitter
for it. A few rodents should not be of such concern that their pre-
servation brings scientific research of any kind to a halt. It is time
to restore a sense of sense to things.

                                            D. Valpar
                                     aka    Marc Arlen
                                            AZM@NIHCU

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 24 May 90 10:23:16 CDT
From: Will Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Book: THE RESTLESS SUN

Been reading a book on solar phenomena that might be of interest to people
on this list -- THE RESTLESS SUN, by Donat G. Wentzel (1989, Smithsonian
Institution Press, ISBN 0-87474-982-4, 279 pgs, no price indicated on
dust jacket).

This looks to be a pretty good overview of the current thought about
solar mechanics, behavior, and cycles. SPACE readers will be interested in
the fact that it refers constantly to the information obtained from
Skylab and the Solar Maximum satellite.

This happens to be one volume in the "Smithsonian Library of the Solar
System" series. I was wondering if other readers had seen any of the
other volumes in this series, and if they had any recommendations about
those books? The only ones mentioned on this book's dust jacket are
MERCURY, THE ELUSIVE PLANET by Robert G. Strom and THE MYSTERY OF COMETS
by Fred L. Whipple; I don't know how recent those are.

Regards, Will Martin

------------------------------

Date: 24 May 90 01:14:24 GMT
From: bfmny0![e-mail]  (Tom Neff)
Subject: Re: NASA Select TV

In article <Feqo=[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Lee Henderson) writes:
>The last time I tried talking to my cable company about getting the
>NASA feed they gave me a bunch of stuff about obtaining copyright
>permissions.

Perhaps Peter or Ron or someone can dig up The Official Statement (from
NASA) on who is allowed to carry NASASELECT, how to go about it, etc
etc, and post it here for interested people to capture.  A contact
number for cable operators to call would be nice too.  Then we could
back up our complaints or requests with some documentation.

------------------------------

Date: 24 May 90 05:36:29 GMT
From: usc!samsung!umich!mailrus!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: light pollution exaggeration

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark SOKOLOWSKI) writes:
>But you seem to forget that hardly anything can be seen through the smog
>of the cities and megalopolises that will cover our planet within 5 to 10
>years. ...

Mark, would it be too much to ask that you check these numbers before
posting them?  Even 50 to 100 years is too soon for something like that
to happen except in fairly small areas.

I've seen the moons of Jupiter from my apartment window, using just my
old cruddy binoculars -- and this is in downtown Toronto, not the worst
case but *not* a good one.
--
Life is too short to spend    |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 24 May 90 04:57:44 GMT
From: uoft02.utoledo.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Re: Endangered squirrels

>
> They certainly are still there, which implies that they are
> successful breeders.  But for successful breeding, they've
> got to find each other, which implies overlapping ranges.
> Squirrels have small ranges -- probably less than 5 acres
> per individual.  And thereby hangs our tail ... ;-)  at
> 100 acres per squirrel, they won't see each other often
> enough to successfully reproduce.
}
} I would like to know where you get the 5 acres figure?  Making
} a reasonable guess (and I agree your number seems reasonable)
} is not the same as an observed fact.  I do
} not know how accurate these sort of counts are (of course newspapers
} never give error bars).  I wonder also what a typical squirrel
} litter is and how quickly the population would grow if left alone
} versus being bothered by telescopes.  I suppose this was calculated
} in this famous ecology impact study.  From what I have seen, unless
} you use pesticides etc squirrles do quite well around humans.
}
}
} Bob Dempsey
} Ritter Observatory
}
} Opinions expressed here were filmed entirely on location.
}
}

------------------------------

Date: 24 May 90 23:32:44 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!samsung!know!pug![e-mail]  (Buckaroo Banzai)
Subject: Re: Endangered squirrels

Ghod knows why this is still in sci.space, but one small correction...

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Greg Titus) writes:
   But for successful breeding, they've
   got to find each other, which implies overlapping ranges.

The first statement is true, the second is false.  A number of animals
change their range/movement behaviors during mating season.  They may move
to common meeting areas or they may deliberately invade previously
unexplored territory.  This happens even in animals which maintain exclusive
territories during non-mating seasons.

Also, even if your estimate of range size is correct per animal, it is often
the case that animal ranges have to be non-adjoining.  For example wolf and
coyote children leave the parents' pack to set up on their own.  If the
territory of the children's pack adjoins the parents, the parents may attack
and drive the children farther away.

Another thing to consider is the food-gathering habits of the squirrels:
what do they eat?  How sparse is food at the worst of times?  Do they
hibernate?

There a *lot* of factors to consider, but this was supposed to be a brief
note...

--
--Alan Wexelblat
Bull Worldwide Information Systems    internet: [e-mail]
phone: [phone]            Usenet: spdcc.com!know!wex
  The taxes of every American west of the Mississippi are used to pay off
  the interest on the national debt.

------------------------------

Date: 24 May 90 20:59:48 GMT
From: trident.arc.nasa.gov![e-mail]  (Peter E. Yee)
Subject: Payload Summary for 05/24/90 (Forwarded)


                                   Payload Status Report
                                   Kennedy Space Center
                                   Thursday, May 24, 1990

          George H. Diller
          407/867-2468
          FTS 823-2468


          DELTA/ROSAT

               The spacecraft was erected atop the Delta rocket as
          scheduled on May 17.  Yesterday it was encapsulated in the new
          10-foot tri-section fairing.  Final checks of ROSAT instruments
          have been performed and a pre-launch communications verification
          test with the central telemetry station at Hangar AE and the
          project control center in Germany is underway today.


          AC-69/CRRES

               The Simulated Flight test, a plus count to check the flight
          events of the Atlas Centaur vehicle which began yesterday, is
          concluding today.  In this exercise, onboard systems were
          activated and their performance verified in the same manner in
          which they will operate in flight.  A countdown dress rehearsal
          is scheduled for on or about June. 30.  All countdown events up
          to main engine ignition will be performed, which includes fully
          loading the vehicle with liquid hydrogen, liquid oxygen, and RP-1
          kerosene propellants.

               In the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility, the CRRES
          spacecraft was fueled with a total of 265 pounds of hydrazine on-
          orbit control propellant today.  Encapsulation in the payload
          fairing is scheduled for June 11.



          ULYSSES

               On Tuesday, June 22, the Ulysses spacecraft was removed from
          its shipping container in the clean room of Hangar AO.  Receiving
          inspections are underway.  Final assembly and testing operations
          will begin next week.

               The Inertial Upper Stage is scheduled to be moved from Cape
          Canaveral Air Force Station to the Vertical Processing Facility
          at KSC on June 5.  It has been undergoing final assembly and
          checkout by the U.S. Air Force 6555th Aerospace Test Group and
          Boeing in the Solid Motor Assembly Building on CCAFS.



          GAMMA RAY OBSERVATORY

               GRO is inactive this week due to the hazardous fueling
          preparations and loading underway in the same facility.

------------------------------

Date: 25 May 90 01:34:00 GMT
From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!rpitsmts![e-mail]  (Commander Krugannal)
Subject: Manned mission to Venus



       How about we establish a fund for Mark S. and ship him to
   Venus at the first available opportunity, since he wants to go
   so much.
      As for your comment Mark about Venus having mountains,
   valleys and even seabeds, what's wrong with Mars?  Mars has those.
   Mars has the largest observed mountain in the solar system.  It
   also has evidence of water on its surface in the form of rivers
   and lakes.
     (And of course, you got the "face" :-)

     Oh, btw, if anyone wants to contribute to the fund, I'd be
   willing to set up an account.  Hmm, how much do you think it
   would take to ship Mark off?  Think the USSR would have
   room on their next Venera?

   [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 25 May 90 03:41:19 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: German MIR astronaut

In article <[e-mail]> I wrote:
>>A german astronaut is scheduled to make a trip to the Soviet Space
>>Station, MIR.  I would like to know if the primary and backup
>>candidates have been selected yet...
>
>The mission has only just received political approval from both sides.
>I doubt that they are actively looking for candidates yet, much less
>finished deciding on a pair.

Okay, I may have to eat those words.  The May issue of Spaceflight says
West Germany has five astronauts currently in training -- Renate Brummer,
Ulrich Walter, Gerhard Thiele, Hans Schlegal, and Heike Walpot -- and one
of them will fly the Mir mission.  Two others will fly on US shuttle
missions.  The remaining two will serve as backups.  Training for Mir is
already underway -- mostly learning Russian! -- but there was no clear
indication of whether only specific candidates are doing that.
--
Life is too short to spend    |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 24 May 90 05:15:55 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: terraforming Venus

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Sparks) writes:
>Doesn't our large moon account for the Earth not having an atmosphere like
>Venus? Or at least partially account for it?

No.  There was a theory to that effect for some years, which has now been
quite thoroughly abandoned by the planetary-science community but lives
on in a now-badly-dated SF story by Larry Niven.
--
Life is too short to spend    |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V11 #447
*******************